4) Weight - Spray foam is a lightweight material, which makes it easier to install than traditional roofing materials. Contractors are reporting exceptional yield, 8,000-9,000 board ft, compared to traditional 2.0 closed cell insulation. Many contractors claim spray foam is the best insulation option for structures built of metal. Then a contractor will install the second coat of the coating and before it fully cures, theyll embed granules into it. Closed cell in our area is normally installed at about 2" of depth in walls and 3" in attics. However, it also represents just one of the many ways NIDA describes in which inhalants are used to produce a high, including:. Farmers Market, Georgia, 204,000 square feet. While 1/2-inch gypsum in the walls and ceilings, or 3/4-inch plywood subfloor, prescriptively meets this requirement, other applications of foam may require application of an approved thermal barrier covering or coating. SPF Applications for Interior Metal Building Assemblies. Its fluid-applied and expands 30 times its size within a couple of seconds. Top subscription boxes right to your door, 1996-2023, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates. See what benefits each roof system will give you. The Spray Polyurethane Foam Alliance (SPFA) and Metal Construction Association (MCA) technical bulletin, Spray Polyurethane Foam Insulation on Interior Surfaces of Metal Panels, provides guidance based on research conducted on the installation of SPF onto metal panels and is accessible via download at www.sprayfoam.org/technical/spfa-technical-documents. . Among its many benefits, SPF can be used in any climate. We don't have an ultra cold climate. Continuous exterior insulation seems like an inescapable necessity. Also, more paragraph breaks would makes things easier to read on screen. Profoam's new ProFill HD is a more affordable alternative to closed cell insulation. Insulation performance is properly assessed by reviewing the combination of air movement, moisture control, health, safety, durability, comfort and energy efficiency with SPF scoring high marks in all categories when applied in metal buildings. My question was in relation to this article specifically, which says that the whole wall r-value of closed cell is greatly reduced due to the thermal bridging penalty when not spraying to the face of the stud vs spraying to the face with open cell, thus making the r-value differential so small that it's worth considering if its worth the extra cost. I've heard of a few owners of energy-efficient homes who managed to convince the local assessor not to include the entire area of a thick wall. The #1 advantage is that you dont need to remove the entire roof. Continuous exterior insulation uses readily available materials and has a long track record for success. (In much warmer or mor humid climates you might still need an exterior side vapor retarder, since the fiberboard may too vapor permeable to avoid problems in air conditioned buildings.). Yes, weve done hundreds of spray foam over metal roofs since weve been a company starting in 1979. If you're only getting condensation on high dew-point days it's almost certainly due to air leakage at the exterior sheathing layer. I did cover that interior gap with membrain to keep cool air from getting in there and going behind the studs into adjacent stud cavities. While other products can insulate the metal skins, they often fail to insulate structural members such as beams, rafters, purlins and girts. The first issue to clarify: Are you really operating a "sizable humidifier"? John, Sometimes I have to remind myself of this. Theres a sweet science to applying good spray foam and when a contractor doesnt understand the heating, cooling, curing, mixing, pressures, temperatures, and adjustments that are needed to install a good spray foam roof, problems can happen. In cathedral ceilings, my current instinct would be to go way overboard on the amount of closed cell foam at least towards the ridge, given the way relative humidity spikes there. To address this, continuous air barriers, vapor retarders and insulation are needed. When you use open-cell spray foam, the R-value is R-8.5. studwalls ~ 25%, and it can be even less with TGIs, etc. Agricultural facilities comprise a large portion of its projects, as spray foam is ideal for many. This type of installation doesn't need to be trimmed. Loosen and wash the metal in the transmission filter. We bring the spray foam rental equipment and foam material directly to your job site. (Although the article I linked to discusses rigid insulation and fluffy insulation, the R-value ratios in that article also apply to the minimum thickness of a layer of closed-cell spray foam.). It certainly can be done. - Having a layer of ccSPF just seems more robust. Gaps and Cracks 24 oz Spray Gun Indoor/Outdoor Spray Foam Insulation. I have had a long running battle with humidity-related tool damage so I have always run a sizable humidifier. I can't say I disagree with that. The spray foam is a type of chemical that expands about 40 times when spray. Our rigs travel throughout the United States. Thats why installers of closed-cell spray foam never fill a framing cavity completely. This foaming spray acts as the best insulator to both heat and cold. 1-800-356-5748 Spray-foam insulation has become a weapon of choice for many builders and homeowners trying to build tight, energy efficient houses. This is especially important regarding roof insulation because the roof is typically the primary location for heat transference in a metal building. A 16-ounce bottle of baby oil sells for around $2.00. One minor critique You can also apply paint thinners, gasoline, Goof Off, and AD-40, which should do the job. All of that said, would you have any suggestions for making up that 0.5"? I guess the "more" I was referring to was versus just using ccSPF. Houlden Contracting utilized Lapolla FOAM-LOK 2000 4G closed-cell spray foam insulation, manufactured by Houston-based Icynene-Lapolla. 2) Insulation - Spray foam is an excellent insulator, which can help reduce heating and cooling costs. Flash and batt in my opinion is the choice of unprofessional installers. The engine's components are rubbing against each other and creating these shavings. You're right that spraying open-cell spray foam on the underside of roof sheathing can be risky. In 113 days. Its more cost-effective to leave the areas that are in good condition. It provides a seamless air barrier, restricts moisture transmission, adds structural strength, does not shrink or settle and has a higher insulation R-value. Also note: The difference in environmental hit is large, even if using low-impact HFO blowing agents for the closed cell foam. Or do you have an automatic sprinkler system that soaks your siding? Existing surfaces must be dry and free of oils, grease, dirt and debris that could affect adhesion. The home was built in 2001 and has Tyvek housewrap and clapboard siding. Installation of Protective Coatings and Coverings: SPF insulation must be separated from the interior space using a qualified 15-minute thermal barrier to provide code-compliant fire protection. Reduces air leakage and air-infiltration. So what do folks think of spraying closed cell foam (2-2.5") and then putting in rockwool? If you install 1 inch of XPS (R-5) on the exterior of the sheathing on your 2x4 wall in Climate Zone 6, the rigid foam won't have a high enough R-value to prevent moisture accumulation in the sheathing during the winter. The thermal bridging performace hit isn't quite as large as with walls, but it's still real enough. My understanding from the article is that the reason why the whole wall r-value of open vs closed is so close is due largely to the increased thermal bridging via the 1/2 of stud that remains "exposed" on the interior (and in smaller part, to the 1/2" less of insulation). The all-steel shell structure was built first then the commercial side of it was insulated with the spray foam. framing assembly have a center-of-wall framing factor of 7.3%. ", https://up.codes/viewer/wyoming/irc-2015/chapter/7/wall-covering#R702.7.1, "When Sunshine Drives Moisture Into Walls.". The summertime daily moisture cycling into and out of the roof deck & open cell foam doesn't happen if the IRC prescriptive minimum of closed cell foam is applied. The best way to ensure best practices are followed is to utilize a professional, experienced SPF contractor. If you want to install spray foam in a stud wall, and price is no object, then it would seem to make sense to specify closed-cell spray foam, right? That's an unfortunate incentive for thinner walls. These are things that more resonate with me personally rather than a general argument as to its superiority, so I don't expect it to convince anyone. Steve, Low GWP 620 Spray Gun Indoor/Outdoor Spray Foam Insulation. But it actually crossed my mind as I have a rather overgrown hydrangea right in that corner so it is right up against the house. 0; Search Search. Although windscreens and spray foam booths minimize or eliminate that issue, its still something to worry about that other roofing systems can ignore. Would you agree? Theres prep work such as power washing. The Center for the Polyurethanes Industry (CPI) offers guidance to contractors and builders handing spray foam. For more information on the advantages and disadvantages of T-studs, see "First Look at T-Studs.". traditionally here they have used the framing dimensions from the plans and ignored siding, trim etc. A 32-ounce bottle of mineral oil can be purchased for around $7.00 at department stores like Walmart and Target, at pharmacies, and hardware stores. It will bond to many surfaces, including wood, rigid foam, masonry, metal and drywall, and can be applied above or below grade. Or did you mean to write "dehumidifier"? I recommend running from any company that preaches only the virtues of closed cell foam. The best solution would be to remove the siding and install a continuous layer of exterior rigid foam -- but that's expensive. Fifteen mils of Lapolla FIRE-LOK Thermal Barrier was also applied. First, let us take a look at what Drywall is made of.. Drywall has 2 outer layers and a core. Does this put the framing factor for TJI way down below 5%? Thick walls can, indeed, have expensive tax consequences. (@ Rick Wertheim) In your analysis, the closed-cell insulated wall has a half inch of confined air in the stud bays (between the drywall and insulation) that the open-cell insulated wall does not. UV rays will degrade foam within 72 hours, so any roofing contractor that does foam will install a coating over the top of the foam to protect it. LaGrange, OH 44050 Can mice chew through Drywall? This type of installation doesnt need to be trimmed. Youll also learn the other reasons (such as R-value and filling in pinholes) why metal roof owners choose spray foam. . They combine through a spray gun and what comes out is a liquid. But with spray foam being fluid-applied, the seams will be covered, leaving the roof seamless. Install a thermal barrier or ignition barrier (coating, gypsum board, or other material) over the spray polyurethane foam insulation if necessary based on the material properties of the spray polyurethane foam or as required by code. Unlike other types of insulation, such as blown-in. Charlie Clean the metal or aluminum shavings in the transmission pan along with the magnet. Get free shipping on qualified Spray Foam Insulation products or Buy Online Pick Up in Store today in the Building Materials Department. When open-cell spray foam insulation is installed on the underside of OSB roof sheathing, the sheathing sometimes gets damp, A manufacturer of open-cell spray foam advises building officials to approve insulation that doesnt meet minimum R-value requirements, Two spray foam experts explain their preferences. Flash and batt - check your closed cell manufacturers ESR reports and you will see that the closed cell flash required to be an air barrier is at least 1.3 inches. The foam itself does not lose any R-value over time. Sorry about the long paragraph.it didn't look so bad on my laptop in that little reply box but clearly more annoying on my desktop. If you use thin foam tape instead of the R-4 foam used by Bonfigliloi, the R-value advantages are this approach (and the reduction in thermal bridging) will obviously be much less. As an insulation material, SPF is versatile, durable and lightweight. The larger your roof is, the lower cost per square foot its going to cost. I hope you learned a little bit about spray foam over metal roofs. I'm assuming that you, Martin, will not be advocating open cell foam alone for that application now. A 2-inch gap would have been better than a 1-inch gap or a 1/2-inch gap -- but I suppose that a gap that varies between 1/2 inch and 1 inch is better than nothing. a. I don't just have to rely on the tape and zip panels to provide a robust air barrier. 1400 Hz. Hi Martin, I love the idea of using open cell, for cost and environmental reasons, but the Ontario Building Code I am following requires poly if closed cell foam is not used. A couple of the reasons I'm leaning towards flash-and-batt + some exterior insulation are: To continue this discussion: If you add a continuous layer of R-5 insulation on the interior side of the assembly that would otherwise have a whole-wall R-value of R-12.5, you end up with a new whole-wall R-value of R-17.5. 11 7/8" TJI's with the specs you note in a 16" o.c. Once the warranty is over, a contractor can make simple repairs, clean the roof, and install more coating. Ethan, it depends on the situation. 7. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the time you spend responding to me and others. My other alternative would be either cellulose or open cell foam. This is a very interesting analysis on the benefits of open cell foam v. closed cell on a cost basis. In a 24 wall, the installer will usually stop at a maximum depth of about 3 inches instead of 3.5 inches, leaving the typical bumpy surface of cured foam. - Every additional inch of wall depth adds to my much too high NJ property taxes. The friction is due to a lack of oil and lubrication. Substrate and ambient temperature and relative humidity must be monitored as well. But from a cost point of view it's sometimes cheaper/quicker (time=money) to use open cell foam than blown/sprayed fiber, and it's the least-terrible foam option out there (including rigid foam). The closed cell portion appears to provide a nice way to address condensation issues, and it feels like it's an extra safety measure against water intrusion. So humidity paranoid I am that I was evening planning to do double stud walls to assure an intact vapor barrier. May to Friday, 12. While I agree that "both types of wall (open-cell and closed-cell) benefit equally" from the additional R value provided by sheathing and drywall, I disagree on air films. Spray foam is a lightweight, fluid-applied product that can be blown away and land on undesirable assets such as car windshields and windows. In your case, you'll be adding 1/2 inch layer of continuous foam. Extrapolating from this, it would seem logical that breaking the thermal bridge at the exterior (or even filling the stud cavity to the face with closed cell for example) would raise the whole wall r-value more than just the r-value of the foam because it eliminates/reduces the thermal bridge. Closed-cell spray foam is so dense that it is difficult to trim. In the case of metal buildings, closed-cell foam is typically used due to its moisture control and structural characteristics. 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